Question: Revising / Rewriting / Editing Strategies

izi 出久

(Un) commonly known grammar

  • izi 出久
  • Replies: 18
Pamela Jo

Inkett novel contest and submission calls for Spec fiction

  • Pamela Jo
  • Replies: 2
Status
Not open for further replies.
izi 出久

izi 出久

Basic
Feb 21, 2022
USA
I'm done with my first draft. Now what?

I've never written a novel before--only short stories and little poems. I would love to learn some of your strategies for revising / rewriting / editing.

More specifically, I'm not talking about proofreading. But there is quite a bit of work I need to do on my manuscript. Reorganization, cutting, revising for clarity, shownottell, continuity, annihilating filter words, etc.

Where do you normally start? Do you go through the ms multiple times (one run-through for each focus)? I feel like I'm going to be jumping all over the place if I don't have a plan.

The ms is 145k (right now) so printing for each edit would be.... well, I'd have to buy a bit more printer ink.

Your experience / suggestions are highly appreciated. Complete newb at this.
 
Well done for getting the first draft completed, and at 145K that represents quite an achievement. :clapping-hands::clapping-hands::clapping-hands:

Most advice I have read on this subject suggests the first step is that you tie a ribbon around it and put it in a drawer for a few weeks. If you've printed it out already, that can be a real ribbon. If it's still in a Word file or whatever, make it an imaginary ribbon.

Then after the fortnight / month has passed, start in with a clearer head and fresher eyes. In the meantime keep writing daily. Maybe some poems or short stories. Just keep the writing muscles ticking over.

And when it's time, I brew a small ocean of coffee or tea and begin a read through correcting and tweaking as I go. But of course if you're already aware of restructure points in the arc, or where you know it's just not working for whatever reason, then you can work on those areas. Often, for me, the readthrough highlights some of these issues and others I previously had not spotted.

Then it's just a matter of repeating this process as necessary until you are happy with the end result. :)

I'm sure there will be plenty of others along to give their particular advice, and as with all things writing - there sure as hell ain't just one way to approach this bit of the process.
 
Well done Stacey. That’s fantastic.

I agree with Jonny about putting it away for a wee while. Helps me to do that.

And I’ve been considering one of Pete’s comments recently. He always says put what you’re best at, front and centre. Play to your strengths.

I’ve been trying to decide what my strengths are, so that as I read through my manuscript for another edit I can keep it in mind. And then, hopefully, tweak it to highlight that (as well as deal with all the other bits that will inevitably jump out, lol).

Xxx B
 
Vagabond Heart said:
I’ve been trying to decide what my strengths are, so that as I read through my manuscript for another edit I can keep it in mind.
Click to expand...
This makes a lot of sense. But now to figure my strengths! That will be a task on it's own, but I suppose I can use the time I'm taking off from the ms to think about it.
 
Jonny said:
Then after the fortnight / month has passed, start in with a clearer head and fresher eyes. In the meantime keep writing daily. Maybe some poems or short stories. Just keep the writing muscles ticking over.
Click to expand...
Great idea! I've had a few ideas for short stories spinning in my head. Most recently, a magic realism one about a serial killer who sacrifices victims to a unicorn (which is a ghastly creature) she has found. Possibly the last one in existence. My daughter heard me telling a friend about the idea and got super excited, saying she would draw the pictures and then the book would say By Stacey Illustrated by Sierra. I cracked up.

Although she did do a marvelous drawing of the T-rex eating the guy off the toilet in Jurassic Park. Maybe she could illustrate for me. Imagine a horror story illustrated by a 6 year old.
 
Congrats on finishing a first draft! That's something to celebrate, especially your first ever.

Jonny said:
Most advice I have read on this subject suggests the first step is that you tie a ribbon around it and put it in a drawer for a few weeks. If you've printed it out already, that can be a real ribbon. If it's still in a Word file or whatever, make it an imaginary ribbon.
Click to expand...

Totally this. The longer the better :)

Then, your plan:

1. You know, don't sweat the small stuff;
2. Work on big structure moments.
3. Work on your characters.
4. Work on the conflict - I have created my own Story Grid to make sure every scene 'turns.' Both a precedent (happy to share with anyone, just ask) and completed for my book.
5. Then do the spit and shine.

I do heaps more, but I don't want to bog you down. This is an editor whose advice is sound: https://foxprinteditorial.com/wp-co...xPrint-Editorial-Self-editing-Checklist-1.pdf

Most of all, have fun :)
 
Last edited:
I actually have 2. I've created the Story Grid (which takes time to create, but it really helps as you edit. If you want to edit a scene and say you can't remember the time of day, you look at your Story Grid). Such a time saver.

The other one is something I created from JK Rowling. The original link I had doesn't exist anymore, but this gives you the idea: JK Rowling's Plot Grid for Order of the Phoenix
 

Attachments

  • Story Grid.pdf
    398 KB · Views: 10
  • JK rowling plot sheet.pdf
    194.8 KB · Views: 10
Yes, congratulations.

I agree with others: put it away for a month. Write other things. Read other things. Read some more. If you submit to agents/publishers you will need comparative titles. Use this time to try to find some. And read.

When you're ready to go back to your MS, did you have an outline structure? Recheck it and see if you still agree with yourself. Then I like to write a logline for each chapter. Are they in the best order? Is a chapter a darling for you, but the logline you write shows you that chapter is not progressing the story? Then ditch. & I write a synopsis. A synopsis is great for clarifying whether your story has good progression. & a blurb.

For my first edit, I read through doing basic corrections if errors or e.g. exposition in dialogue jumps out at me. I make a note of the pages where I have simply written [describe] or [name of horse], but I don't do anything. If I think "an extra chapter right here would be good" I take note but don't add it. This allows me to get a pretty good feel of the whole story by the time I reach the end.
Second edit, I talk to the characters about certain scenes and see if they like them, ask them the name of the horse/describe their clothing etc (plus I do my own research. I think again about my good idea for an extra chapter, write its logline, see if it fits.
Third edit: I do character by character to see if there's continuity in their dialogue style, habits/nervous tics, if their actions suit their physical dimensions etc.
Fourth edit: I do the same for scenery. Is it consistent throughout the novel.
Then I leave it another month.
Fifth edit = repeat checking structure and repeat first first edit. If I like what I've done, it goes out to beta readers. There's no point in doing more until they say what they like/don't like.
Read beta comments and do nothing. I let them simmer in the back of my brain.
After about a week (enough time for me to be objective about comments), I go through MS and disagree or change or make a note of a big change I should do.
Rest a week.
Start from the read through stage again.
When I'm totally satisfied, I put it away from a month, write other stuff, read read read . . .

When I think it's as good as it's going to get story-wise, I do a proper line-edit.

(I'm presently doing a quick first edit of my new WIP even though I've only written 20 000 words because I had to do a continuity edit for a minor change in my previous totally unrelated story, so I needed to get myself back into WIP story and characters' voices. Once I've reached where I left off, I'll just write to the end in accordance with my structure or at least as close to it as my characters will let me).
 
Great advice, @Hannah F . Will definitely be using these strategies.
Hannah F said:
I agree with others: put it away for a month. Write other things. Read other things. Read some more. If you submit to agents/publishers you will need comparative titles. Use this time to try to find some. And read.
Click to expand...
I've created a reading list :) And in a week I will be camping for five days on the beach. Perfect timing!
 
Serra K said:
You must be feeling pumped about this achievement.
Click to expand...
Yessss. I feel like it's taken forever. I started at the end of January, so timewise, not too shabby. But I've been writing for 3-6 hours a day (writing is a generous term--there was definitely quite a bit of daydreaming involved) almost every day since I started. I'm tired.

Give me a week or two, though, and I'll start working on the second one, as I follow the good advice of all these Litopians and take some time off. Working on the second is a break from the first, right?
 
Congrats Stacey.:clinking-glasses: I love the premise of your book and can't wait to read it! I echo what everyone else has said, and I need to add that having a community is a goldmine. I wish I'd joined litopia when I finished my first book! I feel I've learnt so much about craft just by sharing my work and reading others'. And good luck with that giant word count!!
 
StaceyDale said:
Yessss. I feel like it's taken forever. I started at the end of January, so timewise, not too shabby. But I've been writing for 3-6 hours a day (writing is a generous term--there was definitely quite a bit of daydreaming involved) almost every day since I started. I'm tired.

Give me a week or two, though, and I'll start working on the second one, as I follow the good advice of all these Litopians and take some time off. Working on the second is a break from the first, right?
Click to expand...
Writing the second book is definitely a break imo. Also, what I found in doing so was a couple of adjustments I needed to make to the first book to make the continuity work. Same for book three. For instance, I had a pair of buzzards in book one, but the story, especially in book 3, required there to be only one buzzard. Tiny change but important.
 
Congrats. Well done. It's such a good feeling.

Good advice from everyone already. Here's my 2 Swiss Franc.

I don't put it away immediately. I do that later, once I've done the edits and THINK it's ready.

First thing I do is .... buy ink and paper. Yep. I print it. Tip: if you print 2 pages on 1 paper and a dark grey font, you save ink and paper and can fold it to give the feel of holding it as a book.

I know printing it feels like a wasteful thing but it's tons easier to oversee it all. And if ever you lose you computer you have a hard copy.

Next I read it. Amazing how many typos and woolly sentences you'll find. It's so, so, so different in print.

Next I spread it out on the floor in chapter piles, fanning out the piles so i still see sections of the text, enough to remind me what happens in each chapter. While i do that, I write the main 'happenings' and plot points of each chapter at the top of the first chapter page (this will be useful when you do your synopsis). This helps when you do the following:

Then I do what Jonny does and get large amounts of *insert drink of choice*. Then I sit and think, and double check that the story makes sense, flows, progresses to the climax, check character progression / arcs for each character and generally sit and feel myself into the total. Of course I wouldn't have to do that had I planned the thing properly. I curse myself for not planning properly because had I done that the editing would be so much easier. Planning means you ensure upfront that all the scenes work.

Then I do pretty much what Hannah said inc Beta readers. I also do a read through to cut the word count. Where can I say something more economical.

Then I put it aside and start a new novel. I find starting a new darling helps me detach from the one I've just finished so when I take that ribbon off and read it again I'm more objective because I don't have the pink goggles of love on my nose. It also helps me apply to my next MS what I've just learnt from my mistakes on the just finished MS.

Then when a suitable amount of time has passed (that varies from novel to novel), I come back to it. And simply read, highlighting the areas that make me go yikes. Then I go back and sort the highlighted bits.

As for your tendency to add chapters. Ask yourself 3 things: Are they essential to make it better? Am I just making it different?. Am I just getting carried away cos I'm excited about the story? If they're essential, add them. If it's the latter two, kill them. Put yourself in the reader's shoes. What do they experience. Remember less is often more. Those scenes could go into a new book, or onto your blog as extras.

Happy editing.

Oh, and other thing: pick the advice that resonates with you and use it to create your own editing progress. There's no one way of doing it.
 
Last edited:
We discussed self-editing at the last Huddle and Tiffany Yates Martin was brought up. She says edit for structure for first, it's a mistake to line edit, which is what I was doing. I made what I call a storyboard with all the plot points on it when Pete did his first synopsis seminar. That's obviously useful, but even with that it took a Litopian beta reader to make me accept that the chapters I have don't really convey the plot in the crucial first 10k words. I've learned that often when I write it's really just short hand "note" for what should be there. Going forward I'm not sure how I feel about the advice to "just write" the first draft. I mean I started with sort of an outline but a lot of plot points expanded or changed in the writing. Often that was good, but it also meant too often 'the needle got stuck.' (Aw Jeez how many on here will even understand that reference?) I spent too long in a scene. My next novel is already outlined and plotted. I'm not sure I will just write for word count when I start the 1st draft. I'm going to try and keep to the script more, I think. I'll try harder to edit for structure as I go. Pete's promised the epic he's written on synopsis will be finished soon and I'm sure it will be very useful for your next step. He told us that he addresses how to edit for structure. But yeah you don't know what to cut or where until you get that time line of what has to happen and when in place and are pretty sure the 'drama, conflict, stakes', together with character and plot are as strong as they can be. Martin's def of structure is character, stakes, plot. Thanks to RK and the interview with Martin that she posted I was able to finally see chapters that need cutting and new chapters that need to be written. The new chapters actually scare the shit out of me. I realise I clung to the old ones by just line editing them. I'm definitely out of my comfort zone with the ones I'm writing, but if they work-the story's at a new level. Along with this I have to answer the question of "what the hell is a chapter' all over again. I was doing it too much like a scene in a script. How do you change time, place, and situation with the same chapter. I don't mean POV... just go from dialog from walking along the street to later that afternoon having a beer on the porch...


 
Last edited:
Pamela Jo said:
We discussed self-editing at the last Huddle and Tiffany Yates Martin was brought up. She says edit for structure for first, it's a mistake to line edit, which is what I was doing. I made what I call a storyboard with all the plot points on it when Pete did his first synopsis seminar. That's obviously useful, but even with that it took a Litopian beta reader to make me accept that the chapters I have don't really convey the plot in the crucial first 10k words. I've learned that often when I write it's really just short hand "note" for what should be there. Going forward I'm not sure how I feel about the advice to "just write" the first draft. I mean I started with sort of an outline but a lot of plot points expanded or changed in the writing. Often that was good, but it also meant too often 'the needle got stuck.' (Aw Jeez how many on here will even understand that reference?) I spent too long in a scene. My next novel is already outlined and plotted. I'm not sure I will just write for word count when I start the 1st draft. I'm going to try and keep to the script more, I think. I'll try harder to edit for structure as I go. Pete's promised the epic he's written on synopsis will be finished soon and I'm sure it will be very useful for your next step. He told us that he addresses how to edit for structure. But yeah you don't know what to cut or where until you get that time line of what has to happen and when in place and are pretty sure the 'drama, conflict, stakes', together with character and plot are as strong as they can be. Martin's def of structure is character, stakes, plot. Thanks to RK and the interview with Martin that she posted I was able to finally see chapters that need cutting and new chapters that need to be written. The new chapters actually scare the shit out of me. I realise I clung to the old ones by just line editing them. I'm definitely out of my comfort zone with the ones I'm writing, but if they work-the story's at a new level. Along with this I have to answer the question of "what the hell is a chapter' all over again. I was doing it too much like a scene in a script. How do you change time, place, and situation with the same chapter. I don't mean POV... just go from dialog from walking along the street to later that afternoon having a beer on the porch...


Click to expand...
I don't write to wordcount. I write in scenes and chapters. I don't care about wordcount until I've finished the draft.

Regarding your last question, within the same chapter, whether it's a scene change or POV change, the general advice is to mark it with - some use one * - some use *** - some use *****. Some simply use a double line break, but this is a dangerous ploy with your MS because goblins can play with double line breaks between your version and the version an editor/agent/publisher receives. I'd recommend your choice of *.

When you have a structure laid out, if your writing needle gets stuck (I do understand the ref), what I do is skip ahead to a chapter/plot development that my creative juices are salivating to reach. Later, I'll go back to the stuck needle. Invariably, I know how to move it again or where I'm going wrong.
 
Hannah F said:
what I do is skip ahead to a chapter/plot development that my creative juices are salivating to reach
Click to expand...
I did this multiple times. When I'm feeling a little meh about the scene, or I'm struggling to write well what feels perfect in my mind, I skip to another part that I feel more passionate about. This helped me quite a bit for those sticky places, because I had a much better idea of how the characters would interact and act.
 
Hannah F said:
use ***
Click to expand...
Yep.


Pamela Jo said:
The new chapters actually scare the shit out of me. I realise I clung to the old ones by just line editing them. I'm definitely out of my comfort zone with the ones I'm writing, but if they work-the story's at a new leve
Click to expand...
This is the way I feel. And, of course, they play out concurrently to Pedra's story. There is already enough backstory in this series... I'd rather not give myself even more in the next book.

Looking forward to what my readers think.

There is always the concern that I've characterized Kilatra too much in the book that is Pedra's. But this book opens and closes with Pedra. And, in lieu of it being a 4 book series, most of this book is scene setting (not scenery.... not going all Tolkien on it), if I'm thinking of the beat sheet. At least in my mind.

Now I'm rambling. Oh gods. This is why the book is so long. Snip snip.
 
Barbara said:
Are they essential to make it better? Am I just making it different?. Am I just getting carried away cos I'm excited about the story?
Click to expand...
Oof good questions. They are essential to the story. It just becomes a matter of where they belong: first book or second. They happen during the first book's main time-line. They relate to the main-est main character in the second book.

I've read a series in which the author introduced a character in earlier books and then chose to write one of the books from that character's POV and somehow I finished it, although I didn't like him for the first ten chapters. All my sisters were like "Girl, bye."

So I think there is value in getting your readers invested in a character who will take center stage in a later book in the series. It might prevent DNF...

Not to suggest these added chapters are just blah blah characterization. A city falls, a finger is lost, revenge is taken. And, of course, Kilatra begins searching for Pedra. Ok, the finger thing was just for fun. But the first and last points are crucial.

So.... I think so? Again, comes down to where, not if, they belong.
 
The other trick I do is after the first chapter, and a lot of writing getting to know my character, I then write the climax (which changes multiple times, but the characters arc gives me the 'what?'), then I know where I'm headed and I connect the dots to make that happen. With every scene, I follow the method from Story Genius and answer these questions:

Alpha Point:
What happens:
The consequence:
Why it matters:
The realisation:
And so?

And almost every scene has some kind of reaction.
 
New character: depends on how quickly you get your reader to invest in them. George R.R. Martin does this to great effect. If you have a secondary character that you can nurture some investment in, especially toward the end of book one, that character can become your bridge between book one and two.
 
Congratulations on your first draft! Most of what I do has already been mentioned by others. For me, the key is to be brave. I have thrown away and completely rewritten half a book when it wasn't working. I've thrown away two books of a 3-book series to rewrite the idea as one short novel in an entirely different setting. For each novel, I have a folder labeled 'excised bits'--anything I strip from the story during editing goes in there so I can retrieve it if I want to (I have never yet retrieved anything I've ditched, but it is a safety net that allows me to overcome the fear of losing something).

The other key for me is to stay focused during each editing pass on the one or two aspects I'm editing during that go-round. Often, I'll notice something off-task while doing a pass. If I break concentration to address the new problem, I just end up having to go back to the previous editing pass and start over. So I use the comments function to flag things to look at during subsequent editing passes.
 
Robinne Weiss said:
Congratulations on your first draft! Most of what I do has already been mentioned by others. For me, the key is to be brave. I have thrown away and completely rewritten half a book when it wasn't working. I've thrown away two books of a 3-book series to rewrite the idea as one short novel in an entirely different setting. For each novel, I have a folder labeled 'excised bits'--anything I strip from the story during editing goes in there so I can retrieve it if I want to (I have never yet retrieved anything I've ditched, but it is a safety net that allows me to overcome the fear of losing something).

The other key for me is to stay focused during each editing pass on the one or two aspects I'm editing during that go-round. Often, I'll notice something off-task while doing a pass. If I break concentration to address the new problem, I just end up having to go back to the previous editing pass and start over. So I use the comments function to flag things to look at during subsequent editing passes.
Click to expand...
I just realised the chapter I just wrote actually makes a chapter I cut make sense..
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
izi 出久

(Un) commonly known grammar

  • izi 出久
  • Replies: 18
Pamela Jo

Inkett novel contest and submission calls for Spec fiction

  • Pamela Jo
  • Replies: 2
Back
Top