Question: Agents across the pond.

Chris Yugay

Children's Books Illustrator

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Jan L

Prize for Debut Writers after 50

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Jake E said:
If that's the case, the publishing industry is more f*cked than we'd originally surmised
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That would be impossible. It is more fucked than anyone can comprehend. Except for those who went to a very expensive private school and currently are living in a flat bought by their parents and now interning at an agency where the only hope of getting paid is finding a bestseller in the slush pile. With very little world experience that young influencer was hired to predict the market solely because they were young, wealthy and been to Coachella for 5 years in a row.
Like it or not that is who is working for the big publishers. Now imagine being the agent reading your submission that knows they have to sell it to that publisher's intern. How confident are they going to feel? The people reading your submission dont have room to be lazy. Not if they want to find the book that will pay the rent.
 
@Jake E - you know when you say "I'm not good enough" or "I'm giving up" to a bunch of writers, they're going to encourage you with vigor! And perhaps that's what you're looking for, we all certainly need encouragement, especially when engaged in marketing. It's a slog, no doubt.

I was feeling like you after getting 10 (only 10, I know!) rejections, only one was personal, the rest were form rejections. Whatever reason; novel is too long, query not catchy, first chapter not doing it, I've put it aside for now, and I've started on the next story, albeit slowly.

And maybe you're not wanting to start on a new novel. If that's the case then a hiatus can do wonders. I imagine that the pull of writing will return, and you'll come back to it when you're ready. Maybe doing a class will be a nice break. You still write, but it's more guided, and it's different, and social. Or maybe you do something else creative, painting, or whatever.

The one thing I would say above all else is, don't beat yourself up. Try not to let that shitty little voice in your head tell you tales. ATM, you're feeling blue, and that voice is saying, you're not good enough, you shouldn't write anymore, blah blah, because it doesn't want you to be blue, and it's taking the shortest route to try to remove the thing that's causing grief. However, it will also take away the joy writing can bring, and the incredible rush that comes with creativity. It's a nasty little voice, and it tries to convince you that it's reality, but it's not. So try to accept that marketing is a slog that factors in a million things other than you. As hard as it is, don't take it personally. Don't let it sink in and take away what you love. Have a moment (I give myself no more than a day) of self-pity, then shake it off and let it dissolve into the ether. Take a break, whatever you have to do to not give rise to that shitty little voice that tries to protect you in the worst possible way.

Bottom line, if you love it, do it anyway.
 
Totally agree with Hannah, Rachel and LJ.

And taking a course sounds like a good idea: one that helps you improve your weaknesses. You hate the marketing side of things. Do a course in book marketing and social media and how to grow an audience. You might grow to love it. Alessandra Torres is superb at teaching marketing for authors. I'll dig up her website in a bit. But it'll help you get good at doing it (obvs) and more importantly not hate it so much.

Even published authors have to do their own marketing. One Litopians is doing VERY well with her first and second book. She's out there marketing her pants off. Not literally obvs. Publishers these days don't do much for their authors when it comes to marketing which is why they are more likely to take you on if you have a following aleady. If you tell them (or an agent) you hate it and will leave it to them, they will defo not take you on! But you can learn to at last not hate doing it.

I regularly "attend" online book events by Mark Edwards. He does mainly his own marketing backed up by the publisher (read: publishers simply give him the merchandise. Done.). Why does he do these events? He wants to sell, that's why. You can't publish a book then sit back and let everyone esle do the selling for you. You want to earn? Sell! We have to be proactive. Writing is our BUISNESS and we need to treat it as such. Dedicate a couple hours.a week to it, that's all.

To be published and stay published (i.e. earn money long term) you will have to engage with your readers. They don't magically appear and buy your next book. You HAVE to build a fan base and only you can do that because they want to hear from and engage with YOU. You are the voice they want to hear.

So go out and learn how to market a book.

Lecture over.

Please note I didn't shout this. :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
 
Jake E said:
Makes me wonder what the point of them is theb.
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They print the books so you don't have that print cost.

And more importantly, they get your work into book shops, like Waterstones. How else will your work appear on a shelf?

Publishers have a sales force because you don't. Another cost and job they take on. The sales force goes to book shops as well as other retail outlets with the catalogue of what's coming out. (My husband did that job, freelance, for Searchpress for a few years.). Because publishers too sell their books. The only person in the chain who doesn't do any selling is the buyer (unless of course they sell their book on, on ebay :D )

..... No individual author will ever get a meeting with the buyers of a major bookshop. Ever. A publisher is our only way into the physical shops like Waterstones, or WH Smith, or Tesco, or Foyels .... If you want a publisher, you need to put the work in getting one and that includes building an online following so you look 'attractive' to the publisher by potentially having a readership already.

You can of course selfpublish. You can earn money doing it. Look at Roz Morris. And Alessandra Torre. But you also have to put the work in. Roz and Alessandra did put that work in. It's a job.

Jake E said:
I've been considering it, but it's a lot of work.
I'm also not very good at selling myself
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But you can learn to sell yourself.

You can write. And you write well. You've learnt to write well. It didn't just happen. You put the work in. Don't be workshy now when it comes to the non-writing step. Now learn to sell yourself. YOU CAN DO IT. You just need to put your mind to it. You need to want it.

Here's a bit of tough love:

You can't expect to be a selling author and not work for it. You have to do the leg work. Even in your day job there will be stuff which you don't want to do and you don't like doing, and yet you're doing them. Ask any plumber, any decorator, any private fitness instructor. To earn money, you need to put the hours in, and you need to learn to sell. Freelancing (which writing is) comes with selling. Selling is a skill that can be learnt.

Write down your big goal then make a list of little goals which will get you there, then the hurdles and weaknesses, then jump and sort one thing at a time. And be prepared for the long haul. It won't happen tomorrow.

And yes, it IS a lot of work. But ask yourself how much do you really want to be earning money from your writing?

Life doesn't fall into your lap.

We're all behind you. Now be behind yourself. You owe it to your future self to try damn hard and work damn hard at what you want to achieve. Otherwise you'll be old and regret not having tried.

Now do it.
 
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There’s some great advice here Jake. I think we often get into writing seduced by how, in the first instance, it's doable - and it is.

But like most most things - the deeper we delve the more complicated it becomes.

I spent all my real working life selling in construction. I hated it 95% of the time but kept doing it. And even with all that time and experience selling (30+ years) including actually banging (uninvited) on doors, I still hate the selling bit that comes with writing.

But it’s a necessary element and process of a writer getting their work out there..

I had a book published by a major publisher with a huge sales and marketing department. They did sod all. Any marketing was done by me.

So like it or not, part of your writing career unless you’re lucky will be with a sales hat on.
 
Naïvely, i thought the process was a lot more straightforward.
Write a book, get an agent, agent sells it to a publisher, publisher sells it to bookshops et al... Write next book, repeat.

It seems now it looks more like:
Write a book, self publish book, market book, sell book; maybe get an agent of it does well...
 
Jake E said:
Naïvely, i thought the process was a lot more straightforward.
Write a book, get an agent, agent sells it to a publisher, publisher sells it to bookshops et al... Write next book, repeat.
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Ah, if only.

Big name author? For sure.
New author? No so much.
 
oh wow this thread sent my head into a flurry of worries (ignore the rhyme).
@Jake E i don't have much to add in the way of getting an agent and publishing a book, but i've definitely been in the headspace of feeling like you're running on an endless road to reach a goal that you'll never get. i can't guarantee immediate success, or even success at all, but i can tell you that every step of the way, every rejection and rewrite and edit and rejection again, is bringing you a little bit closer. there are hundreds, thousands of literary agents out there, and even if it seems fruitless, you've got to understand you're only on the shallow side in the pool of possibilities. (i know, i hear myself, it sounds super cheesy.)
you've probably already made the decision to take a hiatus, which is a good, healthy choice, but make sure to keep reminding yourself that once you're ready to dust yourself off and get back up again, you'll have the motivation to get back in the game, and the resolve to NOT get discouraged. this message proooobably sounds like a big heap of motivational nonsense but i hope you understand i mean it. there are NO big-time (or small-time) writers who took off after their first, second, third, fourth shot. and all the agents who rejected them before are kicking themselves over it. keep that pipe dream in mind, just in case it ends up being a little more!
 
Most publishers have a Publicity and Marketing department (your publicist). Apart from your editor, this would be the person you would interact with the most. They would liaise with you to organise interviews for you to do, book signings for you to do etc. etc. But you, the author, will be expected to come up with ideas also, and you, the author, will have to do all the self-promotion. They don't really do the marketing for you (unless you're a big name), they enable you to do it yourself. Don't assume trad. publishing is the easy road. It isn't. And even with trad, publishing, your novel may not get into e.g. Waterstones physical shops when you are a debut unknown. It's best to consider trad publishing as a way to get the book out there without paying for the making of it - that is if you can somehow get to the front of the 500+ book queue to even reach the gatekeeper. But some do. There's always hope.
 
Jake E said:
Naïvely, i thought the process was a lot more straightforward.
Write a book, get an agent, agent sells it to a publisher, publisher sells it to bookshops et al... Write next book, repeat.

It seems now it looks more like:
Write a book, self publish book, market book, sell book; maybe get an agent of it does well...
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sort of makes the 70% of profit from self publishing seducing when you're also doing the marketing...

and I've self published with a little platform. You earn a pittance (mind you, my book was niche. It was picked up by a top 10 Australian agent who after 12 months of trying to sell to publishers, where editors loved it but the finance guys didn't - smart - the agent advised I self publish).
 
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RK Capps said:
sort of makes the 70% of profit seducing when you're also doing the marketing...
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I wish I knew how to self publish effectively, but all the articles that I've read today say things like...
"Start a youtube channel."
"Get on Twitch, TikTok, Instagram... Etc..."
I'm not that kind of person. I have nothing interesting to say and I dont actually want to be some kind of internet personality. I just want to write and be left alone ha ha ha.
Then there's the fact that if I did do any of that, I'd make myself look like a right prat. I have no social skills. I'm autistic.
I'm funny (debatable) in print. In person I'm just weird and socially awkward.
 
Jake E said:
"Start a youtube channel."
"Get on Twitch, TikTok, Instagram... Etc..."
I'm not that kind of person
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No, I'm not either... hate any social media these days.

Jake E said:
I'm autistic.
I'm funny (debatable) in print. In person I'm just weird and socially awkward.
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Don't diss yourself for being autistic. There's nothing wrong with that! Lean into it. You should use it to write something like The Big Bang Theory (a book version). I've also heard a blog with a newsletter is effective marketing.

PS. I think you read my last post before I edited it...
 
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Chris Yugay

Children's Books Illustrator

  • Chris Yugay
  • Replies: 5
Jan L

Prize for Debut Writers after 50

  • Jan L
  • Replies: 15
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