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The Huddle Huddle South Wednesday February 5th - 8.00am UK time (GMT) Please check your local time zone

Information about our weekly Writers' Huddle

Jonny

Staff member
Guardian
Full Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
LitCoin
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Hi All,

This month's Huddle South takes place on Wednesday February 5th at 8.00am UK time (GMT)

Please add you name below to be included in the private group in the Huddle Hangout:

As always, opening pages, proposals, covering letters, synopses, title ideas, blurbs etc. are all welcome. No more than four submissions in total can be discussed per Huddle. Often, time prevents us from taking all four subs, but should that happen, then those not discussed will be carried forward to the following month.

We have now dropped the 1000 word limit - but would ask for people to be sensible in length of their submissions. Clearly, if there are multiple items to consider then it won't be possible to take a deep dive into long pieces. However, if there are not then more time can be allocated.

And that's all there is to it - See you Wednesday!

The Huddle Hangout
 
Put me down as "hopefully" -- I'll have an early morning webinar and I'm debating whether I can (or should) do with only 4 hours of sleep. The Huddle is Midnight to 2 A.M. for me. (I'm usually up in the wee hours and sleeping in the mornings.)
 
Apologies, Lyse. Thought I had added you but seemingly hadn’t.

All sorted now.
 
Hi All,

This month's Huddle South takes place on Wednesday February 5th at 8.00am UK time (GMT)

Please add you name below to be included in the private group in the Huddle Hangout:

As always, opening pages, proposals, covering letters, synopses, title ideas, blurbs etc. are all welcome. No more than four submissions in total can be discussed per Huddle. Often, time prevents us from taking all four subs, but should that happen, then those not discussed will be carried forward to the following month.

We have now dropped the 1000 word limit - but would ask for people to be sensible in length of their submissions. Clearly, if there are multiple items to consider then it won't be possible to take a deep dive into long pieces. However, if there are not then more time can be allocated.

And that's all there is to it - See you Wednesday!

The Huddle Hangout
Hi can you send me the link if i am not too late? Ta x
 
Thanks for everyone's feedback in yesterday's huddle. I appologise I was a bit jumpy at the start--a realisation that I am a lot further away from "finishing" than I thought i was. Realising something is broken in real-time isn't fun :).

Attached is a variation of the design brief that I shared with the "free" designer. Looking back now on the number of iterations they have made where they still didn't understand what I wanted probably speaks to both a translation challenge as well as the fact that the elements they are adjusting in the artwork are generated from the prompts I am providing. (Now I see the red flags!)

I have revised the brief, add more examples (like a mood board), and removed the whole section where I was being prescriptive about what needed to be included. With the intention of connecting with a different illustrator, can anyone make any suggestions about what else should be included in such a thing. Is the "mood board" too diverse?

Note - I did use some AI generated images to example the main characters (should they be included).
 

Attachments

Thanks for everyone's feedback in yesterday's huddle. I appologise I was a bit jumpy at the start--a realisation that I am a lot further away from "finishing" than I thought i was. Realising something is broken in real-time isn't fun :).

Attached is a variation of the design brief that I shared with the "free" designer. Looking back now on the number of iterations they have made where they still didn't understand what I wanted probably speaks to both a translation challenge as well as the fact that the elements they are adjusting in the artwork are generated from the prompts I am providing. (Now I see the red flags!)

I have revised the brief, add more examples (like a mood board), and removed the whole section where I was being prescriptive about what needed to be included. With the intention of connecting with a different illustrator, can anyone make any suggestions about what else should be included in such a thing. Is the "mood board" too diverse?

Note - I did use some AI generated images to example the main characters (should they be included).
Hi Tye and nice meeting you yesterday and apologies for not giving more live feedback yesterday, I mostly agreed with what everyone was saying. Reading your brief now, first--wow you are so professional! The first thing that sticks in my mind is your title, which is very cool but you don't talk about it in your brief, what is this relating to? Because maybe that's the thread to pull on.

Second, I know it's your preference to incorporate the main character on the cover. My 2 cents on this is to try to avoid this. Most pro books avoid it such as not to bias the reader. If you really want to, I'd go in the way of the Dune cover with a sliouhette against some vague background. In general, I'd avoid anything that is too specific (background, faces). You can always commission an artist to draw maps of your world to include inside the book. I am reminded of Gormenghast where the the author Melvin Peake was also an artist and drew out scenes/characters inside the book, and the original cover I believe was the castle. Also if you look at the cover for Red Rising, also what's that? Just a red wing. You could focus on some key artefact etc. and tease it on the cover.

Anyway, I'm sorry it's probably not what you want to hear, but I believe in less is more. This is really hard, and I can't imagine what the cover for my SFF novel will be if/when it is ever published, so I really admire how you break it all down. I'm reminded when I designed my website/logo for my company and despite all the briefs I wrote at the end it came down to me rolling up my sleeves and telling them what to do, and now the website is in their portfolio and they get many compliments on it lol....
 
Hi Steve,
I'm sorry that it was a bit of a bad realization. I so know how that feels!! Yeesh. Not fun. But hopefully productive at the end of the day.

I agree with @Sarit , less is more. Especially when you're looking at getting it for free. The more complex, the more work, and perhaps you get what you pay for? If I was offering a free service, and read that, I'd be a bit overwhelmed. It is still quite a lot. Engaging their creativity for something clever but simple could be a better way to go? Also, portraits are hard to get right (and not look like icky AI images), and can be time consuming, unless they're a very experienced portrait artist. Otherwise, they'll use AI and we all know how I feel about that!

If you really wanted to include the MC's in the brief, then I would take out the pictures of them. Your verbal descriptions are enough. The images aren't needed. And then your conscience can be clear about not using AI. (heehee) The images will automatically bias the artist, as Sarit says. And cut off their own creativity. Use words and let them paint the picture. Use pictures, and there's no where to go from there.

I like the info you added about your story. That's the good stuff. Yeah.

I suspect you're trying to loosen up the artistic controls, but this is still very controlling. Sorry! This... "I would like to see a representation of two alternate worlds, represented by one that is utopian, in terms of the character’s representation, as well as the buildings and architecture (background), and one that is grotesque and austere." - is kind of along the lines of what you already have. It doesn't leave room for a completely different thing that you might not be seeing, but might also be really fantastic. This is great... "the idea should communicates a sense of reality being split between something good and something broken." that might be all you need, and then see what they come up with. A feeling, an idea, rather than specifics.

I like the mood board. I think it's good to show the kinds of styles you like. Also the Deviantart links are good, same reason. Shows your taste. That's important.

Interestingly enough, I had a look at the book covers of your comps. That's something I'd do as the artist. See what the covers of sucessful stories simpilar to yours look like. I've put them into a word doc attached. They are all kind of similar to each other in style, simple graphic images. Engaging the imagination. With the brief you've given, it cuts the possibility of something along these lines out.

You're hiring an artist for their creativity, imagination, and interpretation. Not just technical skills. I know you know that, but just thought I'd mention it.

Hope tht helps and hoping you get a book cover that you are thrilled with in ways that you didn't expect. :)
 

Attachments

Fantastic advice thank you @Sarit and Lyse! I will simplify what i have before sending it out there.

Thanks for the comparison covers - i have looked at these before but it was helpful to take another look. What is interesting is that the John Scalzi cover is pretty much a colourised stock image which actually has very little meaning for the book. Similarly the Michael Connelly cover is a photograph (though from memory on that book there is a location with a chain link fence).

I also dabble a little in digital art, but my skills are limited and tend to be more in the area of layout than the art side itself (i.e. I can't draw :) ) These discussions give me a few ideas also to play with in my spare time :)

Thanks!
 
Hi Tye and nice meeting you yesterday and apologies for not giving more live feedback yesterday, I mostly agreed with what everyone was saying. Reading your brief now, first--wow you are so professional! The first thing that sticks in my mind is your title, which is very cool but you don't talk about it in your brief, what is this relating to? Because maybe that's the thread to pull on.

Second, I know it's your preference to incorporate the main character on the cover. My 2 cents on this is to try to avoid this. Most pro books avoid it such as not to bias the reader. If you really want to, I'd go in the way of the Dune cover with a sliouhette against some vague background. In general, I'd avoid anything that is too specific (background, faces). You can always commission an artist to draw maps of your world to include inside the book. I am reminded of Gormenghast where the the author Melvin Peake was also an artist and drew out scenes/characters inside the book, and the original cover I believe was the castle. Also if you look at the cover for Red Rising, also what's that? Just a red wing. You could focus on some key artefact etc. and tease it on the cover.

Anyway, I'm sorry it's probably not what you want to hear, but I believe in less is more. This is really hard, and I can't imagine what the cover for my SFF novel will be if/when it is ever published, so I really admire how you break it all down. I'm reminded when I designed my website/logo for my company and despite all the briefs I wrote at the end it came down to me rolling up my sleeves and telling them what to do, and now the website is in their portfolio and they get many compliments on it lol....
Just had this experience with my husband's website... Reminded of what Pete has said about marketing depts main idea being free tote bags. I got one form the New Yorker-sent all the way to Ireland... Didnt renew.
 
I've just realised I continued this discussion in the wrong huddle forum, when I should have used the hangout. IT person still has trouble working out how to use technology... I'll put another post in the hangout for feedback.
 
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