splitting a novel

[K.J. Simmill]

There is something I have been thinking about for a while, there was a post by @1408 recently regarding word count, also recently I was discussing the matter with @Karen Gray .

My first novel, Darrienia, is an epic fantasy aimed at adults with a very involved story, when I initially wrote it I thought it was quite large for a first time novel, then there was editing, amending etc, which did little to reduce my word count. I finished writing it about four years ago, put it to one side for a while, wrote the others in the tetralogy (at least in draft) and then came back to it. This meant more editing, integration of ideas to be explored further in the future books. I discarded parts that did little to enhance or drive the story, yet made additions that fed it.

It was after going back to it and editing some more that I considered splitting it into two or three books as my total word count sits at 337083. The problem being, firstly, it makes a really good, (although large) book in it's current state, I have had a number of beta readers look at it and have received positive responses. Secondly, On researching this in the past I was informed that a book, even as part of a series should stand alone in its own right, but because of how intertwined the story and events are and once things are set into motion I honestly can't see a place where I could end it in order for a secondary book to pick up from, yet be a tale that does not require having read the first part.

Through the story the protagonists are required to locate certain things, so I thought about splitting each quest into a story of its own, but it doesn't work, the continuous momentum and tension, created from it being one book, is lost when I try to split it. So I eventually gave up on the idea and polished the work ready for submission.

I know it is a very high word count, it makes me less confident when submitting it to people. I don't spam my manuscript here, there and everywhere either. I try to find agents that imply they would have an interest, after all, they are bombarded with so much work on a daily basis I am surprised that most find the time to send a form rejection letter, let alone add words of encouragement.

So I guess the reason I am posting here is to draw on your collective opinions and experiences, you are my peers after all, and I am interested in hearing what your views are. With my current word count, would it be better to look at other avenues such as self publishing? Or are there agents or publishers out there that will accept larger works? I guess at the moment I am going through the self-doubting phase which I am sure some of you are all too familiar with.

Anyway thanks for your time, have a great day x

 

[Richard Sutton]

The nuts and bolts of things intrude sometimes. It is VERY expensive to produce a book of 400 - 600 pages these days. Even Papa Tolkien saw this as a reality. Back in the day, his LoTR was a single volume in concept, but had to become a trilogy to be produced and published. You may want to consider splitting yours, likewise into a trilogy so that the cost of production isn't the first thing a prospective publisher considers.

 

[Karen Gray]

I would split it if it were my work but then As I have said so many times now it seems to be becoming my catchphrase, I am writing for non-readers and anything over 150,000words would put them off.
I think you have to go with your gut on this one @K.J. Simmill . If it needs to be self-published to gain the attention of an agent that way then so be it. If you feel you should split it and don't know where to start then maybe when the houses open you can put in a special request for help on that front? Either way, we all support you wholeheartedly, after all... you know your story better than anyone xx

 

[K.J. Simmill]

Thanks, I have the advantage of it having a focal audience of adult, I really want to keep it as is, but I would be willing to do almost anything to help it have a better chance.
By the way what are these houses I keep hearing mentioned?

 

[Karen Gray]

For sharing and critique, I can't wait @AgentPete said once we reach 100 members they will open, if I'm not mistaken. xx

 

[Alistair Roberts]

From the self publishing point of view it would be far too large and therefore expensive. A 330 page (A5 size) novel costs about $14 with print on demand and would sell for about $19 minimum, depending on with source you use. As yours is 3 times as many words, it would be difficult to sell. I'd certainly suggest splitting it into 3, which would make it more attractive to an agent also, but as someone said above, you know it best. Therefore only you can really decide if its possible to split it in a reasonable fashion, and it sounds like that could be difficult. Guess that's no help at all ...

 

[Geoff]

I am in a similar situation. My latest draft novel is 887 pages long which needs to be cut back and pruned into a two book series. The trouble is knowing where to make the divide into two novels with feasible, self-contained endings, while retaining continuity between both?

 

[Karen Gray]

What I have done (simply because I am evil and it works for me lol) is end each book on a cliff hanger, and include chapter 1 of the next book at the end as a hook. Obviously I can't do that at the end of the last book but the feedback I have gotten is pretty good

 

[K.J. Simmill]

@Geoff that is the exact same issue I have, there is no place I can edit and rewrite to end, even with a cliff hanger, simply because everything is so intertwined and the events that occur heavily influence things throughout.
Each time I edited I looked for that magical place I could divide, but it seems intend on being as is. I think if I were to split it readers would feel cheated, it would seem as though the plot was cut off mid flow without any real closure.

Thanks everone for taking the time to chat with me about this, it has really helped me to get my thoights in order

 

[Karen Gray]

We are all with you I'll still take a copy whether it's in one or 27 parts lol

 

[K.J. Simmill]

Likewise, I cant wait to get hold of yours, what you have mentioned to me so far has sounded fascinating

 

[Dudley]

I suppose it depends on whether your doing this writing thing as a business and want traditional publishing. Publishing other people's work is a business, I'm afraid, and often we have to either fit into the mold or go it on our own. As a matter of business, I might venture to comment that no agent or publisher is going to consider a 337,000 word novel from new novelist - there might be an exception. Always is. But for your "first novel" and don't take this the wrong way because this is a comment I got from publishing professionals, "not knowing the traditional word count for your genre makes you look unprofessional."

Ouch. An American pub actually said that in an email. What it means is that writers need to know their genre and what the sort of rules of engagement are for getting in the game. The odds are long indeed for getting that epic first novel into paperback form. Even an ebook, a publisher has to edit the thing.

Anyway, I've heard that sci-fi and fantasy should run 80,000 to maybe 120,00 words. Romance around 80,000? YA like 60,000. This is from reading submission guidelines on multiple sites and talking to people in the business. Interested what others have heard. So I guess if you want an agent, you'll probably need to split it up.

 

[Carol Rose]

Well, I have to say that the publisher was right. Not knowing standard word counts does make one look unprofessional, in that it shows that person didn't do his/her homework first. If you intend to go the agent route, you need to understand that this is a tough business for them these days. With the ease of anyone being able to toss a book on Amazon and instantly be published, agents are literally fighting to stay in business. That means they have to be even pickier about what they take on. They don't make money unless the books sells. And they can't expect editors or publishers to take on a book they know they can't sell. It costs money to print books. There are standard word counts for that reason, and for the simple fact that those are the word counts readers of that genre demand. Supply and demand. It's not just something you studied in econ in college. It applies here, too. Is it fair? Well, consider that once you're a superstar like Stephen King or J. K. Rowling, you can push the limits of that and get away with it… because your readers will buy it no matter how freaking big it is. Standard word counts do exist, and if you want to play the game, you have to at least know the rules first.

 

[1408]

Standard word counts do exist, and if you want to play the game, you have to at least know the rules first.

God, yes. I read the rules, read opposite to the rules, wrote the book, reread the rules and thought "Oh, ****." I don't think I'm too far out with my word count, it's the genre cross that confuses things with me. Or, uh, for me. Tough part is, I wouldn't have my book any other way. So, if it's an ebook or waiting for recognition in other work, then mer. What can you do, eh?

K.J, I don't know what to suggest. I suppose there is little harm in sending queries to publishers and agents to find out if they would be interested in a book of that size. Otherwise, you could look at it being an ebook, or like you say, split it. I know you said you were having trouble finding a natural place for it to end without cheating the reader (which I agree with) but have you had any luck since?

 

[Carol Rose]

A publisher would have to sell an ebook that large at a price too high to attract most of their readers, especially from a new author. If you're self-publishing it you can set the price anywhere you want, of course.

Obviously you need to do what you feel is right with the story, but you're going to be fighting an uphill battle from day one with a word count that high, and an unwillingness to trim the book or make it two books, in order to make them easier to sell.

Knowing how to craft a story to fit a certain word count, and knowing when to take things out that don't move the story forward or contribute to it, comes with time and experience. I'd suggest reading books in your chosen genre or genres with a standard word count, and picking apart the ones you really like, to see how the author didn't leave out any of the wonderful details that show characterization or move the story forward.

If you can't find a way to split the story, you might have a problem with the cohesiveness of the story itself. Or, you may simply have put in too much filler or unnecessary details. Hard to speculate with reading it. To your eyes, it all belongs in there, and it's a difficult thing to have someone tell you that maybe it doesn't. And, like I said, without having read it, it might be absolutely stellar and you shouldn't change a thing.

I can't help but use the later Harry Potter books as examples. You know - the ones they published after she stopped letting an editor have at them. A word count over 300K is fine if you're an established writer and you have a series going that sells like crazy. You already know the readers will buy the 800+ page book to see what happens next. But a new author… it's a huge gamble, especially if you're determined to go the agent route.

I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[AliG]

It may be that there is not a natural splitting point, but if you could chop of the first say 100, 000ish words and then write a slightly different next 5-10, 000, putting to one side the 5-10k that currently exists, you could bring it round to some form of closure, at least enough to create a reasonable stopping point . Then repeat...

 

[K.J. Simmill]

I am still trying to find that magic place. I have enlisted the assistance of my beta readers as well. Some of which are friends others are people I personally don't know.
The book follows one quest which can be broken into five smaller segments, so we discussed the plausibility of splitting it that way, they did however unanimously agree the tension and suspense built would be lost by dividing it this way. We then discussed a single place that could be possible which would leave the book at a critical junction, I even did an edit so that it could be finished there but it lacks the vital component of being a story in it's own right and again the feedback was not positive towards the split.
We have all had the dreaded lurgy recently so I have had my hands full, hence why my reply has taken so long.
I think, based on the advice of my peers, which I thank you for, it sounds like I may have to go the self published route. Until I commit to this though I have a few avenues left to explore.
Prior to polishing the work I already 'trimmed the fat' so to speak. I condensed sections, removed unneeded areas or segments that did little to enhance the story.
The book pretty much wrote itself and due to the nature, themes, epic events and characters everything that now happens is essential.
I will keep looking and my betas are helping too so it is like I have a full team of people behind me, so far nothing has come from it but you never know.

 

[Richard Sutton]

Well, I have to say that the publisher was right. Not knowing standard word counts does make one look unprofessional, in that it shows that person didn't do his/her homework first. If you intend to go the agent route, you need to understand that this is a tough business for them these days. With the ease of anyone being able to toss a book on Amazon and instantly be published, agents are literally fighting to stay in business. That means they have to be even pickier about what they take on. They don't make money unless the books sells. And they can't expect editors or publishers to take on a book they know they can't sell. It costs money to print books. There are standard word counts for that reason, and for the simple fact that those are the word counts readers of that genre demand. Supply and demand. It's not just something you studied in econ in college. It applies here, too. Is it fair? Well, consider that once you're a superstar like Stephen King or J. K. Rowling, you can push the limits of that and get away with it… because your readers will buy it no matter how freaking big it is. Standard word counts do exist, and if you want to play the game, you have to at least know the rules first.

"It's GOOD to be King."
Mel Brooks

 

[Jay Aitch]

K.J. I had similar issues with my first attempts at my children's fantasy novel, with an initial word count close to 100,000 words. In a brief conversation with a potential literary agent, I was encouraged to consider converting the manuscript into a trilogy. This filled with me trepidation as I have always viewed it as one big story. Eventually I tried adapting into two books, then eventually a trilogy. I added and subtracted bits, did a comprehensive structural edit, and still the word counts for each part were excessive. Literally cutting a long story short, my manuscript now exists in six parts, and though I can not say it resides in the house of half-a-dozen standalone stories, it does feel to me that there are natural breaks that serve to create suitable beginnings, middles and cliffhanger "endings".

 

[EPHahn]

Maybe a half way point? I agree with a previous poster--- maybe you can find a spot to split once, and then add a few thousand words to smooth the transition. The unfortunate truth is that those of us searching for representation are indeed slaves to the guidelines. Once you find a paying audience you can set your own rules.

Another thought, since you mentioned self publishing (or at least, someone did)... if you feel super strongly about keeping ONE large book, then put it out there as an ebook and market the hell out of it. If you get enough interest, perhaps an agent will come to you, and since you'll have your audience, then you may have a leg to stand on as far as keeping your book how you want it. It may be more work and not necessarily ideal, but I've read lots of blogs of folks who have done exactly that. It's worth a shot if, as I said, you feel very strongly about it's current format.

 

[Alistair Roberts]

Bear in mind, one very large book is likely to be expensive, especially as print on demand tends to be anyway. Here's another crazy idea for anyone wanting to self publish a large book. Do so, but also consider splitting it into 2 or 3 novels to keep the individual costs down per book and offer it both ways? The latter is also more likely to attract an agent....

 

[Karen Gray]

How goes the project now @K.J. Simmill ?

 

[Kelly Michelle Baker]

Based on personal experience, I would HIGHLY suggest splitting the novel. That's a massive manuscript. I understand that breaking it up can be difficult. I split my manuscript into two parts when I decided to self publish. Most people have embraced the first book (the second one hasn't been released yet). But one reader hated that it ended on such a cliffhanger. In splitting a book, cliffhangers are inevitable, and it's a tough decision finding where to make the break. You know your book better than anyone and will have the best judgement on where the splits should be. But DO split it--to cut on expense and give yourself a prayer of finding representation (if that is indeed your goal)

 

[K.J. Simmill]

Thanks, sorry for the delay in responding I have been snowed under with a lot of things.
I am certianly still looking for a good place to split.
I really appreciate the advice thank you xx

 

[Jennifer Stone]

Slightly relevant, I've just finished reading 'The Assassin's Prayer' by Ariana Franklin, incredibly good book but ends on such a cliff hanger it's agonizing. Unfortunately it looks like it was the last novel she wrote, so now I'll never know if the MC gets her 'happy ever after', her life of peace and love.
You can't get a worse split than this one!!

 

[Karen Gray]

Slightly relevant, I've just finished reading 'The Assassin's Prayer' by Ariana Franklin, incredibly good book but ends on such a cliff hanger it's agonizing. Unfortunately it looks like it was the last novel she wrote, so now I'll never know if the MC gets her 'happy ever after', her life of peace and love.
You can't get a worse split than this one!!

Awww @Jennifer Stone ! That's why I put the first chapter of the next book at the end of all mines (I LOVE cliff hangers )

 

[Geoff North]

I would definitely split it into two (probably three) parts. If self-publishing, it makes the most business sense.

 

[Jennifer Stone]

Awww @Jennifer Stone ! That's why I put the first chapter of the next book at the end of all mines (I LOVE cliff hangers )

The book was published in 2010, Mrs Franklin died in 2011. Unless she intended it to be the last book and tied it off as best she could at the time. It does kind of end, but not definitely, the ending is implied. Still an awesome book and series. The only bad thing is I've just added them all to my buying and reading list.

 

[Jason Byrne]

There is something I have been thinking about for a while, there was a post by @1408 recently regarding word count, also recently I was discussing the matter with @Karen Gray .

My first novel, Darrienia, is an epic fantasy aimed at adults with a very involved story, when I initially wrote it I thought it was quite large for a first time novel, then there was editing, amending etc, which did little to reduce my word count. I finished writing it about four years ago, put it to one side for a while, wrote the others in the tetralogy (at least in draft) and then came back to it. This meant more editing, integration of ideas to be explored further in the future books. I discarded parts that did little to enhance or drive the story, yet made additions that fed it.

It was after going back to it and editing some more that I considered splitting it into two or three books as my total word count sits at 337083. The problem being, firstly, it makes a really good, (although large) book in it's current state, I have had a number of beta readers look at it and have received positive responses. Secondly, On researching this in the past I was informed that a book, even as part of a series should stand alone in its own right, but because of how intertwined the story and events are and once things are set into motion I honestly can't see a place where I could end it in order for a secondary book to pick up from, yet be a tale that does not require having read the first part.

Through the story the protagonists are required to locate certain things, so I thought about splitting each quest into a story of its own, but it doesn't work, the continuous momentum and tension, created from it being one book, is lost when I try to split it. So I eventually gave up on the idea and polished the work ready for submission.

I know it is a very high word count, it makes me less confident when submitting it to people. I don't spam my manuscript here, there and everywhere either. I try to find agents that imply they would have an interest, after all, they are bombarded with so much work on a daily basis I am surprised that most find the time to send a form rejection letter, let alone add words of encouragement.

So I guess the reason I am posting here is to draw on your collective opinions and experiences, you are my peers after all, and I am interested in hearing what your views are. With my current word count, would it be better to look at other avenues such as self publishing? Or are there agents or publishers out there that will accept larger works? I guess at the moment I am going through the self-doubting phase which I am sure some of you are all too familiar with.

Anyway thanks for your time, have a great day x

And... bump for the newbies!

In point of fact, this was even before I showed up. Having procrastinated for a few months at finding myself in the same situation with a book of 265k words, I would be curious to know what was your final decision, @K.J. Simmill.

 

[Chase Gamwell]

And... bump for the newbies!

In point of fact, this was even before I showed up. Having procrastinated for a few months at finding myself in the same situation with a book of 265k words, I would be curious to know what was your final decision, @K.J. Simmill.

Seconded here. I'm still debating whether breaking my novel up was the best thing to do, so I'd love to hear the final outcome too!