"Forget agents, enter writing competitions"

Selling my Soul to Satan!

What's your agony?

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Emurelda

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Feb 27, 2015
London
I picked up on this line whilst reading a blog by Sufiya Ahmed on her experience as an author entering the traditional publishing route without going through the traditional agent route.

Her article : Discovering New Talent through WriteNow

I attended her talk on the day when Penguin invited 50 writers to their London Insight Day. It was there that I heard Sufiya speak about her journey.

One of the major things I picked up on was the enormous changes her manuscript underwent once SHE was poached by Penguin publisher AFTER she was runner up for a writing competition. Interesting that during a separate radio interview she let it out that she doesn't think she is a great writer and it surprised the radio host when she said this considering she has been published by one of the leading publishers. Especially as writers don't usually see themselves as flawed perhaps :D

And yet here she was explaining how she met a top editor discuss ideas for a book all because she entered a competition and didn't win! Not the book itself - just the idea of what it was about over a dinner. She basically had the privilege of bouncing ideas with an editor to find the one idea that the editor liked and said 'yeah, let's see what you've got'. It still took her a year to complete the book but to have direct input from an editor through the 12 months is immensely valuable. Need I say that!! ;)

It got me thinking how equally important that BOTH the idea and the writing are together. Many good writers complain about the shabby writing published but that shabby book had an editor who thought it was a good idea whether one agrees or not and the writing was probably adequate for the market. Whether that irks some is not a factor that comes into play. There are so many good writers that are still unpublished and it could just be because only the writing has been focused heavily upon not the actual idea itself. Maybe.

I remember when I failed to get even runner up for one of my games I self-published. But they liked the concept so much I had a free 30 minutes with the Director of Viacom/Nickleodean EMEA that led to a free channel on a children's app. I guess I'm trying to drum the idea that entering competitions is not always a waste of time. In fact it might be better invested in than the amount of hours we invest submitting to agents who may not be interested or be in the right mood or even as mentioned here be doing the laundry and doing a 'rejection catch-up' :D.

I've personally had a few good experiences with agent submissions where feedback has been a mixture of responses from flat out rejection initially to more tailored hints to improving the MS over the course of the year. But I found that submitting to 12 initially and improving the MS as the rejection comes with a 'hint' to improve then resubmitting showed a significant difference in their responses. A positive difference. I don't always believe it's a numbers game. I think it's a 'are you ready' game. This means both writing and idea are ready for publishing plus the added factor of having found an agent who loves it enough to sell it to a publisher.

My first writing competition is Write Now and having had the opportunity to meet an editor and go through their process has been an eye-opener. I didn't realise how much involvement the editor has on your MS for a start and how they judge you on how they might get along with you too. :D. So it's a really great insight, literally, into the industry. The amount of work that agents/editors and all the other job roles involved is so thorough that I wonder how much harder it is to work independently ie self-publishing to reach the same market. It's challenging.

BTW: There's a Life Writing competition with Spread the Word for those interested.
 
Interesting; definitely worth thinking about. Agent Pete certainly says that a good plot may trump good writing. I'm much less opposed to writing competitions than I used to be, but I still think you have to pick and choose competitions carefully - I'm sure some are run by charlatans.
 
I've been pondering the competition route into attracting attention. Obviously, some competitions have more prestige than others, and the entry fee charged by the organisers doesn't always correlate with this...some competitions look more like money-making rackets than genuine venues to identify fresh talent. It might be nice to be the biggest fish in a small pond, but if the water is stagnant and no one influential is looking, then why jump in?

Finding representation though entering a literary contest, is more likely to happen if the judges are part of the publishing industry. Hence, I've been checking out the credentials of the judging committee before entering.

One aspect of intriguing an agent enough to make them ask for more is the pitch, where a writer describes a yet-to-be-written story. This approach is only doable if one already has representation, though I've read of authors making contact with agents at literary festivals and book readings in this way. At least one would be writing something that they said they liked the sound of, rather than querying with a completed novel that they reject with what is, essentailly, a 'no, don't like that' dismissal.
 
I agree. The reputation of the organisers is essential. Far more than the competition itself. But there are so many rolled out periodically through the year by BBC, Channel 4, Spread the Word (a respectable organisation recognised by all reputable publishers) and many others I have never come across. But I believe that there are many free (always free - I personally ignore the paid ones) competitions hosted by respectable organisation that are looking for good writers with good ideas for their insatiable media appetites to endlessly churn new content. Whether that's something some writers are interested in is another story but it's worth knowing our options aren't limited to the traditional routes.
 
I've been pondering the competition route into attracting attention. Obviously, some competitions have more prestige than others, and the entry fee charged by the organisers doesn't always correlate with this...some competitions look more like money-making rackets than genuine venues to identify fresh talent. It might be nice to be the biggest fish in a small pond, but if the water is stagnant and no one influential is looking, then why jump in?

Finding representation though entering a literary contest, is more likely to happen if the judges are part of the publishing industry. Hence, I've been checking out the credentials of the judging committee before entering.

One aspect of intriguing an agent enough to make them ask for more is the pitch, where a writer describes a yet-to-be-written story. This approach is only doable if one already has representation, though I've read of authors making contact with agents at literary festivals and book readings in this way. At least one would be writing something that they said they liked the sound of, rather than querying with a completed novel that they reject with what is, essentailly, a 'no, don't like that' dismissal.

You reminded me of this interview with leading agent, Julia Churchill regarding meeting a writer at a literary festival..and what happened next exactly as you stated.

 
Oh I agree. Competitions are a great way to get noticed. That was how I got my original agent. Interestingly this time around I'm finding Twitter a really good way to connect with agents. :)
 
Oh I agree. Competitions are a great way to get noticed. That was how I got my original agent. Interestingly this time around I'm finding Twitter a really good way to connect with agents. :)
How does that work? Sorry if the question is doltish, I don't do Twitter. I thought people just used it to release dull observations into the ether. You know, like "Am on train. Sitting opposite two fifty-something Goths. Sad!" Etc. How do you use it to make and pursue meaningful contacts?
 
Like most things, it depends how you use it. Twitter is a useful research and marketing tool for writers, and offers an opportunity for various kinds of professional leverage. At the least, it represents another source of up to date information about opportunities for writers. Publishers and agents tweet about what is happening in publishing, and about 'their' authors, and about what they are looking for now. They post reviews and information about events and submission opportunities.
 
Like most things, it depends how you use it. Twitter is a useful research and marketing tool for writers, and offers an opportunity for various kinds of professional leverage. At the least, it represents another source of up to date information about opportunities for writers. Publishers and agents tweet about what is happening in publishing, and about 'their' authors, and about what they are looking for now. They post reviews and information about events and submission opportunities.
So is the process as follows?
1. Identify agents of interest
2. Find out their Twitter identity and follow them
3. If they tweet that they are looking for something similar to what you have written, submit to them.
Presumably the only advantage of the above over conventional ways of researching agents/markets is that agents may tweet about what they are looking for before they update their website, so you may get to know about an opportunity sooner than otherwise?
Still struggling to see how it really provides authors with any significant advantage...
 
Twitter can also be seen as a two way process where agents and writers can directly message and communicate to each other. Ways in which interaction can take place:

1. Favourite/hearting/liking a tweet: I may 'favourite' a tweet by an agent for a comment they tweeted I enjoyed and it immediately alerts them drawing their attention to who liked that. Careful not to be seen as a stalker, you judge this.

2. Responding to agent tweets: you can reply to tweets and may find a nice casual chat of a mutual interest may be the reference you can make in a query to mention the tweet. It might immediately pique their interest knowing the writer is someone they interacted with. I have used this with an actor who has agreed to endorse my books. I also used it with an agent who read my MS but rejected on the reason it wasn't for her but gave feedback in the process. Result was a more personal rejection :D

3. Initiate a conversation directly with agent: like an email, except it's public and limited in character (you get round the limit by posting succesive tweets as a continuation of convo). I copied one agent I had already submitted to last year asking her if she didn't mind a resubmission if I had drastically improved the MS. She replied after a few days with a yes! :) Even though I had deleted the tweet thinking, 'silly me, she won't respond'. She not only responded she had to actually retype my twitter handle (it's a big deal I think :D) instead of just pressing reply and copy the publisher I cc'd. My original deleted tweet was stored in her inbox so she knew who it was and invited me to resubmit. I can now include in my query 'thank you for inviting me to resubmit my MS' or something along those lines and reference her tweet reply which may psychologically give more attention to the query, one hopes.

There are many usueful ways to use twitter if it is seen as a tool and another way to communciate either :

1) Passively reading and keeping an eye on agents interests
2) Interacting with publishers and agents directly.

The other vital point with twitter, and something I think is paramount, is that agents get to learn about writers too.

Also knowing that almost all reputable agents interact on twitter with each other and the general public as well as many editors, it is valuable to know that they like using twitter too. :)
 
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Twitter takes some getting used to so if one is new to it I personally wouldn't recommend interacting with agents on the first go other than to read their tweets. I needed a lot of hand-holding to figure out hashtags, and suitable tweets and to stop my ego from reporting what I had for breakfast..just had a breakfast waffle btw with a flat white :p. I am certain that is a vital piece of information somehow. :D
 
So is the process as follows?
1. Identify agents of interest
2. Find out their Twitter identity and follow them
3. If they tweet that they are looking for something similar to what you have written, submit to them.
Presumably the only advantage of the above over conventional ways of researching agents/markets is that agents may tweet about what they are looking for before they update their website, so you may get to know about an opportunity sooner than otherwise?
Still struggling to see how it really provides authors with any significant advantage...

I find it useful but it's not the Holy Grail. Just leave it then.
 
I find it useful but it's not the Holy Grail. Just leave it then.

Definitely not the Holy Grail! :D. Yes - I wouldn't bother with it if it's not deemed useful, or worse, more cumbersome than it's worth. Took me a while to get the hang of Pinterest too. Now I started to use it, after many years later after discovering and registering, to inspire me visually with pictorial ideas e.g. gardening ideas, inspiration, visuals for scenes I can't 'see' internally. All are mere tools for whatever our objectives are.
 
I shall continue in Luddite mode for the present, but I guess I need to keep my eyes open to these alternative routes....
 
@Emurelda has pretty much covered all the bases :)

There are quite a few features there that, once you get the hang of them, can be useful. For example there's a #askagent that gets used a fair bit by various agents. When one of these is running it's a good opportunity to ask questions and maybe enter into a discussion.

Very often agents have a pinned tweet at the top of their profile stating if they are building their lists or looking for a particular genre - check out Juila's (above) profile for an example.

And as @Emurelda rightly says, if you have common interests that is a good way to connect with them.

Sometimes an agents will follow you. Another opportunity to connect. And I recently followed one who followed me back and asked if I had something to send.

Of course, it's just another tool and not for everyone, but no need to dismiss it until you've tried it. :)
 
Kelly Pietrangeli had a 'brilliant idea for a book' and got publishers interested in it, by putting chapters on a blog as they were written. It took a while before an agent noticed that her blog had developed into workshops, coaching and a thriving community.

Coming at the book backward - BookMachine

I'm not sure that this approach would work for novels. But, as the writer of the article says:

Sometimes it seems like a particularly cruel Catch 22: you can only get a publishing deal if you’re already famous; if you’re already famous, you don’t need a publishing deal. But in fact, it makes all kinds of sense for nonfiction.
 
I shall continue in Luddite mode for the present, but I guess I need to keep my eyes open to these alternative routes....
You should bear in mind that even when published you have to do a heck of a lot of the marketing and try to achieve sales yourself. If you familiarise yourself with Twitter, Facebook and the like now then it will make things a lot more straight forward later. It will also enable you to have a ready base of followers/friends. If you can't be bothered with social media then you need to beware because I know a published writer who feels the same way and accepts that he is not getting sales because of his dislike.
 
Jeff Bezos must be a clandestine member of the Colony and have read this thread, as Amazon are offering a £20,000 prize for self-published ebooks.

It's all a crafty way of plugging their Kindle Direct Publishing programme, of course....

Amazon launches £20,000 prize for self-published ebooks

Amazon.co.uk: Storyteller UK: Kindle Store

The criteria for choosing a winner are vague:

Amazon will use readers' interest in different titles online to help decide the shortlist before the winner is chosen by an as-yet-unannounced panel of "both Amazon experts and literary authorities.

I can't believe that they'd choose a book of great literary merit, that wasn't selling well, over some tawdry rubbish that was flying off their eshelves. Still, I've got three completed crime novels laying around, with a fourth almost finished, so I might as well sell my soul to Amazon and have a go!
 
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